May 29, 2008
Quatre-vingts or four score
Why do the French use quatre-vingts instead of huitante, and soixante-dix instead of septante? The subject came up recently with a friend visiting from Switzerland, where septante, huitante, and nonante remain in use to varying extents. It seems that Francophone Switzerland isn't the only place that retains these older forms, and though I found some useful links that noted the rise to dominance of soixante-dix, quatre-vingts, and quatre-vingts-dix from the 15th/16th centuries, I was unable to find a good explanation why.
Not that English doesn't have its own peculiarities, to be sure. King James helped ensure that "three score and ten" would remain part of the language, and Abraham Lincoln gave the usage another boost with his "four score and seven".
Posted by David on May 29, 2008 11:21 PM
I've always assumed it was the other way round: quatre-vingts etc represents an older, non-decimal counting system. A search turned up this in Google Books:
"The forms soixante-dix, &c., are vestiges of the vigesimal system which was in use among the ancient Gauls. This vigesimal system and the Roman decimal system were used concurrently during the Middle Ages; thus 32 was either trente et deux or vingt et douze... " etc
"A History of Accounting and Accountants", by Richard Brown, 1905.
Posted by: Smith-Corona on May 30, 2008 6:49 AM
Which came first is not so easily determined -- especially if you are going back to the Gauls, for whose counting system very little evidence survives.
A couple of further links for those interested in looking further here and here.
Perhaps I'll take a look at the relevant entries in the Französisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch if I have some spare library time over the next few days.
Posted by: David on May 30, 2008 2:13 PM
One of my college French professors (both of whom happen to have been from Brittany) taught me the Gallic explanation - but that doesn't mean it's true. I'll have a look around, too.
Posted by: Michael Tinkler on June 3, 2008 6:12 AM
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